Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Sam.
[00:00:30] Speaker B: Welcome to Vital Signs. I'm Jen Goday, your fearless host, and we're here to talk about your most valuable asset, your health. Today we're going to talk about one of the most important health skills. No one teaches us, how to navigate healthcare effectively. Have you ever left a doctor's appointment and realized, wait a minute, I forgot to ask X, y and Z or gotten home with prescription and wondered if you really understood why you were taking it in the first place?
Listen, you're not alone. So many people spend more time researching a vacation than they do preparing for their healthcare appointments. And that might be one of the most expensive mistakes we make.
Joining me today is Ross Phan, founder of Offscript consults, clinical pharmacist, healthcare communicator and patient advocate, helping people make smarter healthcare decisions. Ross, welcome to the show.
[00:01:19] Speaker A: Well, thank you so much for having me.
[00:01:22] Speaker B: I really want to dive into this because I think you would be an expert at answering the question, what are the biggest mistakes patients make before they ever walk into a physician's office?
[00:01:35] Speaker A: So I think the biggest mistake that is made is, interestingly, not being prepared. And it's not like we were ever really taught on how to be prepared.
And so it comes with time to learn this.
For me, one thing I love to have is certain cheat sheets with me. I like to have a cheat sheet to know what I should always ask when a prescriber would recommend a new treatment plan. I would also like to have a list of allergies, prescription medications, over the counter herbs, natural supplement meds right in my medical conditions because they always ask for these things. And all of a sudden I feel like I'm being quizzed and I'm like, oh, my God, I rem this. But now I don't because all of a sudden I feel like I'm on the spotlight here.
So those are some of the things that I think is important. And then I think the other thing is realizing that your clinician is just human and also gets overwhelmed as well. So instead of like, like spitfiring all of your questions, maybe dwindle it down to three goals to start off the appointment. And your question should be related on how you can get to those health goals. I think would make everything more productive.
[00:02:54] Speaker B: Stop. I love to give people action steps every single time I have a show. And that was a perfect one for today, folks. If you're watching, bring a list and boil it down to three top health goals that you have and sort of focus. I thought that was excellent. So why do so many Patients leave their appointments confused because this happens all the time. Even worse, like when your parents go to an appointment without you and they can't even tell you what has happened. So why does that happen?
[00:03:23] Speaker A: Well, I think there's a mismatch in communication and learning style and goals.
Like I mentioned earlier, the clinicians have certain things in mind on what goals they want to talk with you, but that actually might not match your goals as a patient or as a caregiver. And so if there's a mismatch there and we can't relate to each other, that, that doesn't help.
And then I think everybody also takes in information differently.
If you can be vulnerable with your clinician and just share with them not only your health goals, but how you intake information best, they will try to adapt to you and actually try to present the information in a way that you would also find helpful.
[00:04:05] Speaker B: That's fantastic. And so you've crossed both of these arenas. What, in your experience, do healthcare providers wish that patients would do differently?
[00:04:16] Speaker A: Sure, I think I mentioned it earlier, but just the three goals before and after. And I actually have spoken with, with actual prescribers, medical doctors, and this is actually something that they've implemented. And they notice that it helps them be able to not be overwhelmed, but it also helps the patients better understand, like, almost like bite size, everything more, instead of trying to eat the whole elephant at once type of thing.
And it makes it easier for everyone to swallow goals and information best. And he noticed they're able to reach their, their health goals easier by just breaking things down into three goals at the beginning of the appointment.
[00:04:56] Speaker B: You know, and honestly, I was, I was a clinician for 20 years. And when I first came out of medical school and first started practicing, the biggest challenge I had was layman's terms.
That was one of the first skills I had to learn personally, because it's important that we speak on, on the language of, of the patient. And I think I would only add on the patient side, if you don't understand something that the clinician is saying that your practitioner is saying, let them know that you're not clear as soon as you're not clear, because I think that also bridges that gap.
[00:05:34] Speaker C: So thank you for that.
[00:05:35] Speaker B: Now let me go to another aspect altogether, because I do believe this is a spectrum. But, you know, the person who comes in, I used to laugh and lovingly call everyone who did this an engineer because it tended to be engineers. But they would come in with a stack of papers from Dr. Google. Now it's on their phone and they would self diagnose themselves.
But is there a difference between being an informed patient and being a difficult patient?
[00:06:05] Speaker A: I think there is.
So an informed patient, I like to think of someone who tries to increase their understanding.
And usually, at least for me, when I do it for myself, it tends to be I try to go out on my own and look things up when I don't understand something. But then having, like I mentioned, a list of goals with associated questions to discuss with the clinician to have a productive conversation.
But as far as difficult patients, I feel like there's two types to break it down. But it tends to be, and what's interesting is even though there's two types, it ends up having the same result. And the same result is it's actually somehow they're creating the relationship somehow is falling apart and it's creating more barriers for them to reach their goals. But they tend to be either passive patients or they tend to not want a conversation at all. It's very one sided.
But it's unfortunate that goals are not met because of these things.
[00:07:11] Speaker B: Yeah.
So let me ask this because one of the things that I encourage every single show and everybody who's watching can is nodding their head to this is I encourage advocating for yourself as a patient. Like how can we advocate for the best care, for the new technology, for
[00:07:29] Speaker C: something that we're really interested in in
[00:07:31] Speaker B: women's health right now, it's HRT because, you know, the old school way of
[00:07:37] Speaker C: thinking was different, for example. And so how can we as patients advocate for ourselves without breaking that relationship down or feeling confrontational to the clinician? Like, how do we do that?
Are there a couple guidelines maybe that our viewers can be thinking about?
[00:08:00] Speaker A: Sure. I think tone of voice definitely makes a difference.
So it's like any other relationship. Right. I think even though it is between a prescriber and a patient, we should still treat it as a long term relationship that we do want to thrive. I think having that mindset would help.
I think everyone, it's hard, but everyone letting their guard down a little bit and not be defensive in general, this is for both parties. I think that also helps as well.
And when you're vulnerable, you're willing to share your goals, your concerns, your questions, your doubts.
Like you mentioned, if you're unsure about something, it's okay to say you're unsure. No one expects you to know everything and no one expects the doctor or the prescriber to know everything as well.
[00:08:48] Speaker C: Right.
[00:08:48] Speaker A: Like the prescriber probably doesn't know everything about engineering, for example. Right. Or law.
So why would they, the prescriber, expect the patient to know everything too?
And so it's okay to just let your guard down and say you don't know instead of confronting and say you do know when you don't.
[00:09:12] Speaker B: I think that's a phenomenal way of putting it. And I think communication in general in today's world has sort of lost a little bit of that vulnerability. And that, that, that entire skill set
[00:09:26] Speaker C: seems to be diminishing.
[00:09:27] Speaker B: So thank you for that.
Let me ask you this because.
And this happens all the time, you go into the doctor's appointment, you think it's something. You've researched it before, and you kind of have in your mind what you think that treatment plan is going to be, or you have an idea of the treatments for a particular condition or whatnot.
So. And then the clinician comes back with something completely off of your list. Or maybe it's different than what you thought going into the situation.
What questions when that treatment plan comes up? What questions should we be asking before agreeing to a treatment plan? Whether we've expected it or it's kind of come out of the blue for us before we agree to that.
[00:10:13] Speaker A: Yeah, no, I really appreciate you asking this question. I think this is where a cheat sheet would come in handy. You know, this list that I'm about to present.
So, for example, why is the medication or the treatment plan important? I think that's a great question to ask, is if you don't have the big picture of how, why it's important, why would you be invested in it? Right. And I think, like, how do you prepare for the treatment? Because the treatment might not be medication. It might be something else. It might be a procedure. And so either way, is there any preparation involved? Is always good to know. And then what could you expect during the treatment and what do you need to do while on this treatment? For example, are there food? Should you take it with food? If it's a prescription. Right. Are there certain things you need to avoid? Sunlight exposure, etc.
I think, of course, side effects is a huge deal. You should know about common side effects, what to expect, when would it usually go away? Of course, the more severe ones that would require immediate medical attention.
And then there's also like, what is the effectiveness of this treatment? How long do you need to be on it? Because I think some patients are unaware that it might be a lifelong medication. And then they stop it when they feel better. And that's, that's not good.
And of course, how do I know, like, what are the signs to show that this treatment is effective for me? Right. And I think the last few is very important, but sometimes we forget about it is what is the cost?
Because if it's expensive, then what's the alternatives? And if it's expensive, I need to save money for it. So how long can I wait before I start this treatment? When is it going to be too late for me to commit to this treatment? Right. And then lastly, do you have a handout, you know, of all this information you're giving me? And if you don't, where can I learn more about this information so I can look it up later?
[00:12:05] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that was a very extensive list. And folks like the most effective treatments aren't, aren't necessarily the most extensive ones. They're the ones that were the most compliant with. And I think you brought up a point about asking the cost. This, I think is something that is missed so often.
And if you can't afford a treatment, then don't agree to a treatment that you know you cannot afford because you know you're not going to be compliant with it. And that's going to break down your, your success moving forward. Don't be afraid to have that conversation. We do have to take a brief break, but when we come back, we're going to tackle one of the biggest sources of confusion in health care. Medications, supplements, and the dangerous assumption that naturally natural automatically means safe.
[00:12:49] Speaker C: After these messages.
[00:13:22] Speaker B: Welcome back to Vital Signs. Stay connected to this show and every NOW Media TV favorite live on demand anytime you like. Download the free Now Media TV app on Roku or iOS and unlock nonstop bilingual programming in English and Spanish. On the move. Prefer pods? Me too. Catch the podcast version at www.nowmedia.tv. from business and news to lifestyle culture and more, now, media is streaming around the clock. Ready when you are.
Let's get right back into our conversation today. Right now, millions of Americans are taking prescriptions, supplements, vitamins, peptides, hormone therapies and recommendations they saw on social media. What could possibly go wrong with that? Healthcare has never offered more options, but more options don't always mean better outcomes.
Ross, I would love to dive into this with you. What medication mistakes do pharmacists see every day?
[00:14:18] Speaker A: So I guess to me that depends on if it's the patient side, right, or the prescriber side when a new prescription comes to me. But a few that I can list right off the bat is, let's say if a patient just got discharged from the hospital, I notice that's when a lot of things get noticed. For example, there might be missing meds. When a patient just got diagnosed with heart failure or a heart attack, I noticed the directions might be incorrect or there might be duplicates, but there's different doses because the patient switch, switch doses and of course, the big one, interactions.
[00:14:57] Speaker B: So that was on the, on the prescribing side. What about on the patient side? What mistakes do you see on the patient side?
[00:15:06] Speaker A: So I think interactions is definitely all, all around. Right. So, for example, if there was a change that was made and it wasn't shared with everyone, then that can definitely cause duplicate problems. And then, of course, if there's natural medications, and this isn't all on the patient, can also be on the pharmacy side for asking. Right. Or on the clinician side for not asking.
But if there's medications, that's definitely in play and we are unaware of it, interactions can definitely happen.
[00:15:41] Speaker B: So let's talk about supplements, because we've talked about supplements before, but I would love your take coming from the pharmacy side.
What are common misconceptions that people have about supplements?
[00:15:56] Speaker A: That it's natural, so it's definitely not harmful, or it's been around forever, people have used it forever, and we're all still alive today, so it's not harmful.
[00:16:09] Speaker B: So let me, let me ask you a little more, because in the news, we've seen toxicity from some different types of supplements that are natural. Everything from overdoing it on turmeric, which is, you know, it's a spice, it's a season that we've used forever, but, you know, the dosages are too high or whatnot. Like what, what supplement combinations do you see most frequently that concern you the most because of that lack of understanding that natural isn't necessarily safe, or the dosage may be way too much for human consumption, for example.
[00:16:46] Speaker A: Yeah. So I think that the thing that we need to treat natural medications, we need to give it the same respect or caution that we give to prescription medication. It is still a substance with an effect. And that means that the effect can be good or bad or it could be both. Right. So like you mentioned turmeric, for example, any natural medications, just like any prescription medication, there, there's like an effective dose and an unsafe dose. There's also a dose that makes it. What's the point of even taking it? Right. There's also durations involved as well. And sometimes with the studies out there, it's also important to know, like what maybe what brand was used too, because that can also make a difference as well, or if it was combined with something else. And the studies, unfortunately, it's usually very small and the quality isn't as high either. But with turmeric, some of the stuff I'm concerned with is, of course, bleeding. People with kidney problems should also watch out for turmeric. It has like a very high phosphorus and potassium content, for example.
And of course, I'm always worried about St. John's Wort. It has so many interactions. And also people with kidney problems should also.
It's a risky natural medicine to be taking if you have kidney problems too.
[00:18:10] Speaker B: How often do medications and supplements interfere with each other? You just talked about two of them, for example. But how often is this. Is this like, a, oh, 10% of. Of the time you come across this, or is this becoming more frequent? And what should we as consumers be asking maybe our pharmacist before we add supplements to our dosset, if you will?
[00:18:32] Speaker A: Yeah, so I think it's definitely becoming more frequent. I've noticed the uptick or trend in people wanting to take more natural medications along with their prescriptions. But unfortunately, when we ask them, what medications do you take? They don't consider natural, natural medications as a medication.
So I always have to add in. Okay, let me know over the counter. That's why I listed everything like herbals, supplements, natural. And then that's when they would list everything for me. And I think there's a higher risk of interaction because a lot of the natural medications tend to be combination drugs. Actually, there's usually like five or ten different things within this. This tablet or this capsule. And it makes it even harder for us to determine what's going on. And it takes more time for the pharmacist to actually go through each ingredient to see what's causing a problem. But, yeah, before you start any natural medicine, definitely talk with the pharmacist so they can. Any interaction.
[00:19:35] Speaker B: And so I want to go back to something that we sort of.
[00:19:38] Speaker C: We talked about in the first segment and we sort of touched on now. But I think it's really relevant.
You use the example of someone coming out of the hospital and now they have a whole list of new medications. But maybe at home they've already been taking a medication that's not the same medication but has the same prescriptive reason behind it. And so it's actually a duplication now, or it's been rendered unnecessary, et cetera.
What do the people watching need to know and how should they be communicating with their pharmacist, whether it's themselves or for a loved one. Because that happens a lot. Like if you're caring for an elder or something along those lines, or a child, what should we be coming to and bringing to the pharmacist's awareness in that instance?
[00:20:32] Speaker A: Yeah, no, I think that's a great follow up question.
I would definitely bring the list of medications that you had before the hospital. If you don't have a list, I know it's. We can brown bag it, right? All the medications that you took before your hospital visit, bring that and then bring the new list or the new medications that the hospital discharge you with. And so it's easier for everyone to compare and see what was changed or what if something is still necessary or not, or if there's a discrepancy that requires further follow up with the prescriber in the hospital.
[00:21:07] Speaker B: And that includes your supplements. Folks, I just want to asterisk this. That includes your supplements, your herbals, your natural solutions as well. So let me ask the next question because you mentioned herbal and I've not actually seen that on an intake personally before. And it immediately made me think, well, I drink herbal tea. Do I have to include my herbal tea with supplementation? Because I just drink it because I like it and I don't want the caffeine. But is it having a medicinal effect? I don't know. So can you clarify that particular aspect as well?
[00:21:42] Speaker A: Yeah, sure. So I think for me, the reason why I include that is that everybody use different terms for the same thing.
So some people, when I say over the counter, they actually might start listing herbal, natural and supplements. But if I use over the counter, they might actually lean more towards like Tylenol or ibuprofen and then all of you know, like the St. John's Wort and valerian root. Things like that is not in their mind. So that's why I list every single thing. Because once I do, I notice it starts triggering things in their mind where they're like, oh, all, all of these things should be included or shared with Ross because she's asking for it. It's just a way for me to be in depth and thorough because some people tend to, you know, say natural and they also include herbal. But they, you know, sometimes I would have to say herbal and they're like, oh, she also means natural.
[00:22:33] Speaker B: So awesome.
So folks, I just want to sort of wrap up a list, if you will, because this list has come up a couple of times. I just want to reiterate it so that everybody's got it. It's create a master list for yourself, for your children, for your, for anyone who you're caregiving for. It's your prescriptions, it's your vitamins, it's your supplements, it's your hormones, it's your over the counter medications, it's your natural medications.
Make that list, take a photo of it, put it in notes on your phone, but keep it on your phone because you'll have it for every appointment. I think that is really having, having that master list there is, is a
[00:23:11] Speaker C: game changer because you won't forget anything.
[00:23:13] Speaker B: And so when your pharmacist or your physician asks for this, you won't be missing anything or, or think about it
[00:23:22] Speaker C: later after the fact.
[00:23:23] Speaker B: So the reality is, is if we've
[00:23:25] Speaker C: already got it and we've stored in
[00:23:26] Speaker B: our phone, which we always have with us, let's be real, it is 2026. I am under no illusions that everybody is bringing their phone with them.
But bring it to every appointment and
[00:23:36] Speaker C: bring it when you get your pharmaceuticals as well so that you can make sure you are safe and that there's nothing that's going to interact so that everyone in your care circle is informed and we're all moving forward towards the same health goals. The reality is you can't optimize what your healthcare team doesn't know about. We do have to take a brief break, but after the break we're going to dive into one of the biggest healthcare disruptions of our generations. AI ChatGPT and whether your next healthcare advisor might be digital.
Coming up next,
[00:24:38] Speaker B: Millions of people are already asking ChatGPT more health questions than they ask ask their doctor. Yes, that is truth. I researched that. Is this brilliant or is it dangerous? Technology is changing healthcare faster than many people realize. The question isn't whether patients are going to use AI, the reality is we're using it.
[00:24:57] Speaker A: It's in the numbers.
[00:24:58] Speaker B: The question is whether you're going to use it wisely. I'm here talking with Dr. Ross and I really want to ask you your thoughts on patients using ChatGPT. Claude, whatever AI tools that they are for healthcare information is, should they be using it?
Is it helpful or detrimental? What are your thoughts?
[00:25:20] Speaker A: I think whether it's helpful or detrimental definitely depends on the user.
[00:25:25] Speaker B: Right?
[00:25:26] Speaker A: There's a, there's a, it's a tool like we, I think we kept saying that it's a tool and so that's what you need to use it as, is it, it's supposed to help supplement or help you. But it's not supposed to be like completely replace your clinician. And I believe part of it is also making sure that you use it to increase your understanding. But you also make sure you use the right prompts. I think also not knowing what prompts to use can also make it more dangerous as well.
[00:26:00] Speaker B: Oh absolutely. It's the difference between being extremely general and being more specific in anything that you ask it.
So let me ask you say you are about to go to a doctor's
[00:26:12] Speaker C: appointment, it's a new physician, it's a new health complaint. What would be the right way to leverage AI before a doctor's appointment?
[00:26:23] Speaker A: Sure. I think you need to treat it as if you are a mom or a manager. Right. You have to prompt it appropriately and I think before letting it respond to you, ask it. Let me know if there are any other questions that you would like for that you would like to ask me so that you can provide me with the best answer. Right. I think sometimes that actually helps it come up with a better answer for you.
I think another thing too is always ask for its sources and check it against other sources as well.
AI tools can actually misinterpret sources and also hallucinate. That's definitely a thing.
So if you don't give AI a full picture then it, it's probably not going to give you the, the most appropriate response because there's other factors you need to consider. Right. If you ask a very general question, it's going to give you a very general response. If you give it more details and give it a better overall picture of your health then it can give you a more detailed response. But in the end, you know, you can improve your understanding but you should still discuss with the clinician what you found and then they can help to like sift through the noise because I've actually have seen, I've asked AI always ask AI for its sources and I've looked at some of its sources before. I'm like this is cruddy. These are cruddy sources. And you know, but if you're not trained in health, how would you know that's a cruddy source? So sometimes it's good to just double check and the clinician can, can definitely help you with that.
[00:27:58] Speaker C: And I mean I come from the medical field as well and one of the things that we see it in the whole Dr. Google era was they were looking at all of these studies that were funded by the supplement or the pharmaceutical company and there was not double blind studies or weren't peer reviewed. So one of the first things as a clinician I always asked is, okay, well, where did you get your information?
And that, I think is something that's so critically important to ask. If you're using chattercloud or any of the others, where did you get this information?
[00:28:30] Speaker B: And if it's from medical journals or if it's from PubMed, you know, really look at that. It's important. And don't scare yourself before the appointment either. But the reality is, I think, always remember that human judgment is a human aspect. ChatGPT is not a human. Your clinician is.
Let them be that deciding factor. So let me ask you the other side. After the appointment, maybe I got labs back and the doctor spoke very, very rapidly and I didn't catch everything.
Can AI help understand lab work and some of the medical terminology that was used? And where should I draw the line there between what I'm receiving when I'm asking for clarification from AI versus going back to my provider?
[00:29:17] Speaker A: Yeah, I think AI can definitely help with understanding. Like you said, as clinicians, we sometimes trap ourselves and we forget that we shouldn't use medical terminology or medical jargon.
We should try to use more laypeople's terms. And so if we accidentally have done that, then I think a patient using AI to say, hey, what does this medical term mean? I think that's definitely very appropriate.
As far as labs, it can be kind of dangerous to actually use AI for labs just because one lab work, one lab value, can be inaccurate. The AI doesn't know your baseline. The AI doesn't notice trends, because that can be important as well. Right. And then this is where that human factor factor comes in that you were mentioning. This is where the clinician or the prescriber can help finesse all of this out. And sometimes one lab type means nothing without all the other lab types with it as well. It gives a better picture because sometimes maybe a lab type is missing. So how can you make a conclusion based on just one lab? And then there's also other contexts. What was the timing of this lab? Was it fasting or not?
What other medical conditions might affect this lab? Right. And medications?
So as we can see, there's a lot of things involved where I think the human element comes into play to provide the professional judgment there.
[00:30:40] Speaker B: Yeah. And, you know, I think that's the key. The key is judgment is where we draw the line. Anything that requires judgment, we should be consulting with our, with our clinicians, with
[00:30:51] Speaker C: our practitioners, with our pharmacists and anything
[00:30:54] Speaker B: that doesn't require judgment, that explanation of things, I think that's a very good breakdown.
Let me ask, in your opinion, can
[00:31:07] Speaker C: AI actually improve communication between patients and providers? Because we started this show with what questions should we bring? How should we prepare, what questions should we ask in treatment planning? Can AI actually help with that communication aspect between patients and providers? And in what ways?
[00:31:27] Speaker A: I definitely think it can. Like we mentioned, it's a tool, right? So we can definitely use it as a tool. But I think another way, if we do want to put like some type of personal face to it, it's like a caregiver. It's a digital caregiver. So if you bring your caregiver with you, you usually ask them to help take notes for you, right? Help bring paperwork for you, organize things for you, ask questions that you didn't think of, things like that, help keep track of everything.
So, but again, comparing AI to a caregiver, your caregiver is not your health care practitioner, is not your clinician. You would not substitute your caregiver for your doctor, right? So you need to treat AI the same way. I can be very helpful, but it should not. You should not substitute your condition by just using AI. So you can definitely use AI to keep track of things. It has a memory, so you can help for it. You know, you can ask it to create lists of allergies, medications, etc. A cheat sheet.
I think all of those things would be very helpful.
[00:32:36] Speaker B: So let me ask you the next question because, I mean, full disclosure, I work in AI. I have been in the AI space for years now.
And like, there's a very good time and place for AI versus not. But some clinicians are very anti AI for all reasons and for any reason. And so if a patient walks into an appointment with an AI generated with AI generated information, even if it's just the list of medications or their list of questions, should providers be welcoming that or worrying about that?
[00:33:07] Speaker A: I think it really depends. Because I think, like, I would welcome, at least if it was me, I would welcome a person using AI to help them generate their list of medications. It actually makes my life easier, right? Or my colleague's life or team's life easier. Like, oh, hey, all of your allergies are here. I could just check it off while I'm, you know, looking at my computer screen, at your profile. Okay, all your medications, what has changed? What has not changed, right? So I actually think the patient's helping you become more efficient too. So I think if you take it from that mindset that they're actually playing a proactive role. That's great.
But of course, you know, draw the line at telling them. Like you mentioned, maybe if we notice that they're being very dependent on AI, say where the line should be drawn so they know what the relationship between AI and the healthcare provider and the patient should be. So they know when they should definitely talk with a healthcare provider. Not completely depend on AI is important.
[00:34:06] Speaker B: Oh, I couldn't agree more. So I mean folks, just to kind of wrap that in a bow, use AI to generate your questions, to understand terminology, to organize your information, to provide those lists of medications and any changes. Don't use AI or Dr. Google to diagnose yourself or to ignore professional medical advice or to replace your healthcare team.
I think a good way of summing it up is human judgment is still necessary and that comes from your clinicians and your medical team.
AI is a really powerful co pilot, but it's not the pilot.
[00:34:41] Speaker C: And I think that's pretty much Ross,
[00:34:44] Speaker A: what you were saying.
[00:34:45] Speaker B: Like AI is that assistant, it's that caregiver maybe, but not.
[00:34:49] Speaker C: It's not your doctor, it's not your pharmacist, it's not that clinician.
And it's very dangerous if you believe it to be the case. Because just like with Dr. Google, it's scraping the Internet and it can scrape anything and everything. It may not be be the right information for you.
[00:35:06] Speaker B: It may be wrong or it may
[00:35:07] Speaker C: be completely made up. We do have to take a brief break, but when we come back, we're going to talk about the future of healthcare communication. We're going to talk about digital health and how patients can avoid becoming victims of misinformation. Listen folks, there's a ton of information out there, but just because it's on the Internet, just because it's on social media doesn't make it right, true or applicable to you. We will be right back after these messages.
[00:35:57] Speaker B: Foreign.
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Let's just get right back into the nitty gritty, folks. We have had such an amazing conversation so far. What does it look like and before the break, we were talking about AI versus not AI, what we should be leveraging the technology for. And the reality is we've never had more access to health information, but at the same time, confusion has never been higher.
Why is that? Because healthcare is no longer happening only in exam rooms. It's happening on smartphones, podcasts like this, social media feeds, AI platforms and online communities.
Just because there's something out there about a supplement, an herbal, a medication, something or other that is in an arena of healthcare doesn't necessarily mean that it's true, accurate or accurate for you and your needs.
So I want to get back to the conversation at hand. Ross, why is health misinformation spreading so rapidly?
[00:37:30] Speaker A: Well, I think that people are very confident when they present information now, which, I mean, I guess. Great, I'm glad for confidence. That's amazing. Not everyone has that. But it's dangerous, though, when it's associated with misinformation.
And.
And unfortunately, social media has its. Like anything, social media has its pros and cons, but it definitely can go viral very quickly with the Internet and social media being so readily available and our phones being tied to our hips now.
[00:38:02] Speaker C: Yeah, you're right about that. So let me ask, how can our viewers tell the difference between education and clever marketing? Because clever marketing seems to be flooding our feeds.
[00:38:15] Speaker A: Yeah, I have to admit, I give kudos to the marketers out there because I know that it's definitely a skill and not everybody has this amazing skill, but it's like one of those things, right? Like with great power comes great responsibility to, you know, big Spider man fan. So, yes, I think that education usually, for how I tell the difference is it usually provides sources. It's not shy about it. And then you are able to actually easily go to these sources and verify the information yourself. They're usually great with also providing disclaimers, especially like next steps when it comes to, hey, make sure. Especially when it comes to health, make sure you involve your healthcare provider before you know, to make sure that this information is actually relevant or pertinent to you.
And then I think when it comes to marketing, marketing is really good at focusing on your pain point. That's how it draws you in, right? And then it makes a claim on how to address that pain point.
But unfortunately, that claim can be false. That's what makes it so dangerous.
I think. For me to best explain this, I need to give an example. Like compounding GLP1s, right?
Like the compounded GLP1s, the company would probably say Something like it's clinically tested to be as safe and effective as brand name GLP1s, but they actually haven't gone through the same or any type of clinical testing that can back up these statements. Right. And so you, if you want to, you can ask the compounding company, all right, please provide me the results of these supposed clinical tests and see if they can do it or not. Right. Or if they provide it for you. Do you see that it's actually practically the same and plagiarized from the brand name manufacturers who actually did get FDA approval for these GLP1s. So I think if you have that mindset, hopefully that will help, you know, the difference between education and marketing.
[00:40:10] Speaker B: You know, I thought, I think that was exceptional. And you know, some of the red flags, if they can't provide the research or if you, if you look it up and it's bogus, or there's a case study of one, or it's just a bunch of testimonials that they send you. I mean, that's an obvious red flag.
Are there any other real obvious red flags that consumers can watch for online?
[00:40:34] Speaker A: Yeah, I think like if for all of us who has some experience in healthcare, whether you're a clinician or a patient or a caregiver, you probably are aware of certain safeguards at this point. If you notice the company is somehow skipping these safeguards that are usually in place, that's a red flag. And then also if there's all these promises and guarantees, but there's not any disclaimers, that's also a red flag too. But I think sometimes the best one is maybe kind of just click around the website, for example, and try to see like if they say that they are endorsed by this awesome company that you know is legitimate and then you click on it, does it lead to actually that endorsement somewhere or not? Or if it is leading, you know, it's not leading anywhere, it's just going back to the homepage. That's a red flag.
Right. Or if it's, if it's leading to, it looks like a legitimate endorsement. Look at the URL. See the URL. URL is like the legitimate website that you are sure about. If it's a different URL, that's. That's not good.
Right. So those are some red flags that I can think of.
[00:41:51] Speaker B: I think that was well done. It's really funny because you're saying this and I'm, I'm laughing to myself because one of my companies, someone literally spoofed my entire website and at a different
[00:42:03] Speaker C: URL and used my pictures and everything and sold the their product and it was a big deal.
[00:42:08] Speaker B: I mean this was a couple years
[00:42:09] Speaker C: ago, but it absolutely happens and it happens more and more. And on social, there's so many people who are spoofing real doctors and influencers in things accounts. So make sure that it is the actual account. I think that's a very, very easy way to do a fact check actually.
So let me move on and ask you like, like what role do healthcare providers, professionals, practitioners have moving forward in
[00:42:39] Speaker B: communicating more effectively to maybe combat some of this misinformation online?
[00:42:45] Speaker A: I think maybe first off we again that vulnerability, right? Making sure that we're not on the defense and we are dismissive to the patient or the caregiver who's coming up and presenting that to us. Cause if we already have that attitude, then unfortunately the patients are also going to be even more defensive, right? Or the care forgivers are going to be even more defensive than. It's just everyone's just, it's just everyone's hitting a wall and that's not good.
But if you, you go ahead and acknowledge what they found, maybe even ask them how they found it and they can show you and then you can walk them through how you, why you actually think this information isn't relevant or pertinent to them.
And while walking through each step with them while they're presenting it to you, I think would be helpful.
[00:43:35] Speaker B: Thanks for that. So I'm going to move into the future.
What does the future of digital health communication look like? And if you could design it from scratch, what, what would you change?
[00:43:49] Speaker A: So I think the future of digital health communications, I think marketing gurus out there are going to have a field day. They're just going to, I have a strong feeling it's going to be more interactive, it's going to be more engaging to buy your trust. Right. It's going to immediately catch your attention, which makes it really for you to want to get a second opinion. But I think, you know, interestingly, some people out there are very skeptical of clinicians. They're very skeptical of doctors. I would like to encourage them to actually use that skepticism towards AI or social media because they always want a second opinion when they talk with their prescriber, right. Or their clinician. They should actually do the same thing with AI and actually more so because that's what you just need to do. I actually go through all the emotions of. And if I can actually reinvent, like you said, redesign health Communication from scratch. I would like for it to be not shy in presenting its sources right. And maybe we should have a tier system on like, you know, the reliability of these sources to be helpful.
I would like for there to be disclaimers and you know, if anything, I also think that. I hope that. I know school has changed so much since we've been in school, but maybe teach kids the useful skill of being able to go through this noise and analyze this information appropriately.
[00:45:18] Speaker B: Julie, I agree with you 100%.
How can people reach out to you if they would like to learn more about you, about what you do, or maybe just dive deeper into this conversation?
[00:45:31] Speaker A: Yeah, sure. So they can reach out to me on my website.
So my website is www.offscriptconsults.com. so off is like the word on and off. And then script is like a script pad or a reading off a script and then consults is with an S at the end. C O N S u l t s.com on the website they can find ways to contact me via email, other communication channels and then they if they ever want to connect with me on social media because like we mentioned, social media is everywhere now.
You can usually look me up through my handle, which is Ross dash offscript or Ross underscore offscript.
[00:46:16] Speaker B: Thank you so much for that. Listen folks, before acting on health information
[00:46:20] Speaker C: online, I think Ross gave us some great tips.
[00:46:23] Speaker B: Who is saying this?
[00:46:24] Speaker C: What evidence supports this? Are they selling something? Would I trust this source with my family and then ask for a second opinion just like you would any clinician? The future of healthcare doesn't belong to the most informed doctor. It belongs to the most informed partnership between patient and provider.
Ross, it was amazing to have you. Thank you for your insights. I really appreciate having you on the show today.
[00:46:49] Speaker A: Thank you for having me. It was great talking with you as well.
[00:46:53] Speaker C: Likewise. Healthcare is changing, folks. Tech is changing, information is changing. But the only thing that remains the same is that no one will ever care more about your health than you do. So ask the questions, stay curious, advocate for yourself, and become an active participant in your healthcare journey. This has been vital signs all about how we protect our greatest asset, our health.
[00:47:16] Speaker B: Unfortunately, all good things come to an end, including this show. But the good news is we'll be here same time, same station, next week. Until then, have an amazing rest of your day.
