Vital Signs (Aired 02-13-2025) The Future of Pharmacy: Beyond Insurance

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Sa. [00:00:25] Speaker B: Foreign. [00:00:30] Speaker A: Welcome to Vital Signs. I'm your host, Jen Goday and we're here to talk about all things peak human performance, physical, mental, social, emotional health and well being. Because what are we here for? Our greatest asset, our health. Today we're going to be diving into two important topics. One is the evolution of pharmacy and how it's evolving beyond just insurance model. Some of the new changes that are happening and what we can start to look for as consumers in the marketplace. And then we're also going to shift gears a little bit and talk about the impact of stress, burnout and conflict on our health and our lives. You are in for a treat. Our guest, Jerry Fu is both a pharmacist and leadership coach. He is bringing a unique perspective on how healthcare models are shifting and how patients and professionals can navigate these changes with resilience. Welcome to the show, Jerry. [00:01:22] Speaker B: Jen, thanks for having me. [00:01:24] Speaker A: You know, one of the things that we wanted to talk about today is the future of pharmacy. We are seeing more and more traditional pharmacies shift towards this more cash pay outside of insurance model. And there's a lot of complexity in the industry. Can you shed a little light on what is this, what, what is this movement, what's happening with this? [00:01:44] Speaker B: Yeah, it's, it's an interesting thing. In the 20 years that I've been a pharmacist, I've never seen anything like it because there was a point where insurance ironically was meant to help people have more accessible healthcare services. But the irony is that now insurance is making it more difficult than ever for people to get the help that they actually need. And so to see this cash based model where people are saying, hey, you know what, I need this medication no matter whether or not my insurance covers it. It's an interesting inspiration for these patients and to not need a healthcare system that's technically profiting off their sickness rather than doing their best to keep them healthy. [00:02:26] Speaker A: You know, that's an evolution that we're seeing in multifacetets. We're seeing a lot more integrative medicine, holistic health and wellness pop up and that's outside of the traditional healthcare model, or at least the insurance model. And you and I were talking earlier and we talked about kind of this Costco style revenue model for pharmacies and it's gaining traction. Explain how this approach works and how it benefits both patients and pharmacists such as yourself. [00:02:53] Speaker B: Absolutely, yeah. So one of the primary examples of this membership based model is called Good shepherd out in Memphis, Tennessee. And I'll go and preface that it works better in richer neighborhoods than less so neighborhoods. But the idea is that in a way, this is disrupting the market because now when your revenue is based off membership, basically in their business model, you get to buy drugs at cost instead of whatever markup is normally happening. So the pharmacy doesn't have an incentive to try to upsell anything. They just say, hey, if you give us a certain amount of money each month, we're going to let you save money on your medications. And they're like, even then they said, if our model doesn't save you money, don't come here. And that's the level of integrity you don't see a lot of. [00:03:42] Speaker A: And yeah, yeah, you know, it's really interesting because healthcare providers and allied health, pharmacy included, we go into medicine because we want to help people. That is our primary reason for going in. However, over time, it's become more of a keep people sick model. Unfortunately, because of the economics of it and because of the way we've been told to practice, there are many cases where we're trying to do what's right and we know what's right for the patient, but it doesn't fit that actuarial model. How does this cash pay model outside of insurance shift that? Is that something? Because we, we saw that in physical therapy, we saw that in the direct primary care. How is that shifting in pharmaceutical, you know, the pharmacy industry? Are you able to better care for your clients? Are you able to do more education? What does that look like? [00:04:33] Speaker B: Yeah, part of this is really educating the patient and helping them make an informed decision as possible. And the simple gauge to whether or not your advice is actually useful or helpful is, would I tell myself the same thing? And when you tell people, hey, this is the best way to prevent even having to need to go to the doctor to begin with or to minimize the number of doctor visits. And the system is incentivized to do that. There's a great book called Upstream by Dan Heath that talks about this, where you kind of take out the gamification, incentivization of certain more profitable drugs or medical services. And when you help the patient remember that they're in the driver's seat, despite everything that insurance is steering them to try to do to keep them paying their premiums. Now we have an interesting opportunity to really help people become who they were supposed to be at their peak performance. [00:05:25] Speaker A: And so talk to everybody who's sitting there listening to this and. And they're like, okay, great, this sounds fine. And Dandy but what do I need to do? What do I need to look for? How do I find these alternative models? And what do I do with my insurance now? [00:05:41] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think part of this is just, you know, keep your eyes open first because you want to say who is in their 70s and still robust and active and things. And you have to ask yourself, well, what are they doing? Who are they seeing? Because everybody is going to insist that they are the ones that have your best health in mind. And I'm not here to take away from any truth that comes from those statements. But you want to vet their people. Right. You want to vet the quality and their track record so they make sure that, yeah, I have the best chance of being the grandparent and being able to run around with my grandkids. Right. What is the vision for yourself? Is the first thing I would ask patients. Right. Because if you don't have a desire to actually eat the most nutritious foods and put in the work to actually keep your body in shape, I think of the book outlived by Peter Attia, talking about treating your body as a financial investment so that the last 10 years actually reap dividends. Patients need to be coached into having that vision for their whole lifetime instead of all the short term gratifications that the world seems to want to have you chased towards. So that's. It starts with the patient. [00:06:51] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. So you're a pharmacist. [00:06:53] Speaker B: Yes. [00:06:54] Speaker A: And you are in the business of helping cure people through medication. Like that's kind of how that started. And now you're talking about lifestyle changes and eating good food and exercising and moving your body. Things that people have heard on this show before, I might add. [00:07:08] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:07:09] Speaker A: So for the people who are watching at home and they're hearing this, I want to just highlight, folks, Jerry is a pharmacist. He is in the industry and he says to reap the dividends of your greatest asset, which is your health, you have to start today. So if people are watching, what are the easiest things they can start with today? [00:07:26] Speaker B: Yeah. I think part of this is designing a system to help you with that discipline. Because that's been the discussion around. Willpower is a new one. And I think. But I know how much it's helped me when I deliberately design a system. I think of Jane Claire's James Clears atomic habits. Right. I make my phone as boring as possible after 9:30. So make sure. Okay. Let me make sure I get enough sleep. Right. Can I say no to the candy? Can I Actually keep nutritious things and make sure that I give myself the best chance of actually eating what I know I'm supposed to eat. That's the first thing. And then, hey, how can I make exercise fun? So these are some of the things that some simple steps for people to start with, right? To say, hey, let me join a fitness class where people are doing active and creative things. And then right, then, right. Once you've kind of designed some simple habits that are fun and rewarding around health, that's really the first start. Because as I like to say, the more time I spend around medications, the less I hope I ever have to use them or have to recommend that people use them. Actually. I mean, I'll be happy to say that. [00:08:26] Speaker A: You know, it's really funny because a lot of times we don't think about these things and we've been sort of conditioned as a society. There's a pill for that, there's a pill for that, there's a pill for that. But every pill that we put in our body, every chemical that we put in, everything we change always has another unintended consequence. So I just want to highlight. Jerry gave us a couple of really good resources. One of them was Atomic Habits. You mentioned two other books. What are some really good resources for people who are looking to start these habit changes? [00:08:57] Speaker B: Yeah, I definitely recommend Atomic Habits by James Clear, Upstairs Stream by Dan Heath. Any of the Heath books, really, in a slightly tangential self improvement sense. Those books are very good about giving you new ideas and seeing the world in a different way and really designing your life. Oh, designing your life, that's another one by Bill Burnett and Dave Evans. Just realizing, yeah, there's a lot of things beyond your locus of control and at the same time recognizing what your locus of control is tying into atomic habits, tying into, you know, meditation and journaling and generating awareness leading to productive action. I'd say those are, I would start with those books just to see what happens. [00:09:38] Speaker A: Fantastic. Well, we are going to have to take a brief break, but you folks at home have had several recommendations for books that you can educate yourself and if you listened very carefully, it starts with designing the life we want to lead. So I want you to think about for the next couple of moments. What does that life look like for you? What does that look like specifically with regards to your health? And what is the one thing you're going to commit to today? Because we all know willpower is a little bit of a challenge for us. Maybe it's, we're going to rid our pantry of anything that's not healthy for us, and we're going to fill it with very healthy foods. I don't know what that is for you, but make that decision right now because we have to start with one thing. And if we start with one small habit, we're going to be able to start that positive trajectory. We will be right back after these messages. Foreign welcome back to Vital Signs. I'm Jen Gode here with Jerry Fu, who is a pharmacist and also a coach. We stopped before the break talking about a little bit about pharmaceuticals. All of the pills that we put into our body have an unintended consequence. Well, now let's dive into what everybody's talking about. Weight loss drugs, Jerry. Weight loss drugs are on everybody's mind. People are wanting to pop a pill to drop pounds and they're seeing these negative consequences or maybe they are less informed. What do we need to know about the weight loss drugs that are out there today? [00:11:27] Speaker B: Yeah, One of the recurring sayings that I've used for myself and for others is to remember that external solutions don't necessarily fix internal problems. They are supplements. Much like most medications, they are meant to kind of help you in a secondary motion along the way to get you to the life quality that you're looking for. And so a lot of people, the irony is that a lot of people get mad when they tell us, hey, our medication didn't arrive yet. And we've never had a problem with non compliance with weight loss medications. Like it is alarmingly a good problem to have. And so the irony is that when people want too much of a good thing, like when people losing weight more quickly than they should, you know, that leads to more problems. It doesn't solve their they think that they can finally coast, they can eat what they want, they can live a little more irresponsibly. And unfortunately, that's just not the case. We've even had we've seen dentists who have even, you know, tried to ride this wave of saying, oh, well, let me fix your teeth and I'll help you lose weight, which will, you know, somewhat help your dental care maybe. And so people need to remember that it is a long game. As much as we love to see short term returns and we love hearing that strike when we knock down all the pins at the bowling alley. Right. This is the doctors and the practitioners that have the most integrity understand that this weight loss medication is a secondary, a supplemental measure to a much bigger picture of holistic wellness. As we've talked about because the best ones or the most competent ones, the most trustworthy ones will understand, hey, let's put you on a regimen, let's make sure your diet is maxed out in terms of nutrition. Let's make sure you're on an exercise regimen that's appropriate for your age stage of life. And they understand, hey, we'd rather have gradual, incremental, permanent change as opposed to the quick microwave weight loss that says, okay, now I can be more irresponsible because I think that's what people secretly want to be able to do. So that's what we see. And we have people that complain or they drew up too much medication or they said, well, if I lost five pounds when it took this much, imagine how much it could lose when I take double the dose. And they said, well, did any prescriber endorse that move? Right. There's a lot. This is where self directed medications and self directed leadership can sometimes go off the rails. Right. [00:13:48] Speaker A: Well, and there's dangers to that. Right. I would love for you to dive into what are the dangers of us randomly upping our medication? Because it's something that is not talked about very frequently and it's not something that they talk about because traditionally non compliance with medication is the problem. So you're fighting to get them to take the prescribed medication for whatever diagnosis. However you're seeing the reverse. And people are just upping their dosage with weight loss drugs, for example. So what are the dangers there? What are the things that the population needs to know? Because listen, folks, this is not medical advice, this is education. And you must talk to your healthcare providers before you change anything in your healthcare routine, including increasing the dosage of your medicine. But we have a pharmacist here who's really well versed. So talk to us about some of the dangers of us tweaking what the dosage is without consultation of our practitioner. [00:14:45] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, as much as I love WebMD as the supplements of resources, no substitute for a medical degree as much as there's people see MD in the name. And the simple answer is that when you increase the dose, you, you increase the chance of side effects and toxicity. Every medication is to your body, every medication is the toxin that needs to be metabolized and excreted before it causes any permanent damage. And so that's the cleverness of the industry is that we design a medication that can bypass the body's defenses to actually do good work. But when, yeah, like I said, there's Too much of a good thing with every dose. We are extremely conservative when we say, hey, start low, go slow. Why use any more than you have to? Because we don't want things like pancreatitis. We don't where your pancreas starts to malfunction or act up. There's people that get nausea and vomiting because they try to get results too quickly. Headache is another common side effect. And so if you're wanting to lose weight, but then the side effects are overtaking your ability to even enjoy your new weight free life, what's the point of that? And again, we are here to make sure we understand, we appreciate the fact that you're are motivated to take this medication so that you can enjoy life a little more fully. And at the same time, we're going to preach patience every single time. Patience for patience, right? [00:16:07] Speaker A: Yes, right. Patience for your, for your changes. And you just mentioned toxicity. And detox is another buzzword. What are your thoughts as a pharmacist in this space? Because there's a whole lot of information and quite frankly misinformation out there about detox. And we've talked about detox on this show. Our bodies are made to naturally detoxify us. And if we're on a medication, it's meant to go through certain processes. Talk to me a little bit about that. Like what, what are the things that we need to know from your perspective? [00:16:40] Speaker B: Yeah. When it comes to detoxing. Yeah. It comes back down to what do I know that my body can synthesize on its own? What do I need to supplement it by eating in my diet to make sure that I actually have a complete supply of resources that's continually going through my body to continually optimize dysfunctions, knowing that there's no shortage of nutrients or enzymes or anything else like that Part of this. Again, too much of a good thing. People think, oh well, if this dose of vitamin is going to help me, maybe let me double it again. It's just, I appreciate it. I used to think like that and I thought, well, if this much is good, think about doubling that must be better. And it, it's not always the case. There's a certain dosing range for every supplement or medication that's out there. And so giving your body, also treating it well and letting things like letting it recover, giving it time to kind of normalize its functions and continually making those adjustments. It's kind of like a steering wheel. Right. When you're driving, when you go too far one way and then you make the Mistake of overcorrecting, and then you can't even get enough into a straight line again. And so this is the kind of metaphor, analogy that we're trying to get people to understand with medication, supplements, things like this. And hey, sometimes you just have to do maintenance, let things wash out, reset, and see where the default is. And then you can make slow and gradual adjustments so that your body is optimized. [00:18:05] Speaker A: And let's be real, folks, like, what is the right dosage of any supplement? Vitamin, mineral, pharmaceutical, for me is different than for you. We have different gender, we have different sizes, we have different body composition. And so all of these things play in. So just because it worked for mom doesn't necessarily mean it's gonna work for me. Can you speak a little bit to that and individual? Because one of the things that we're seeing in the overall community is, oh, well, sister takes this and mom takes this and dad does this. So then I can take this too. Like, talk to us about what we need to know about that. [00:18:39] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. There's an interesting, almost transferable benefit that we want to say. Well, what's the saying? What's good for the goose must be good for the gander. And this is one of those to say, hey, I remember when my parents went through a glucosamine phase and they just realized, like, oh, this is the supplement I need for joint health. Sure, why not? And I'm not refuting the idea that sometimes, if traditional medicine isn't getting you the quality of life you want, because it is. Physicians are human, too, and they can only diagnose so much. And I'm always going to be. I'm willing to say on record, yeah, if it's a supplement, sure. Try it once, see how you respond. At the same time, be vigilant over if it's actually helping you, improving you. Because you may have to make the necessary choice to stop a supplement or reduce its dose. And that's okay, because if your body. If you're ignoring your body's feedback when you're responding to something, when you start taking something new, like valerian root or some of these other supplements like ginseng or garlic, and you're just saying, well, I just need to keep taking more. And even if my body's saying, maybe you need to stop, and you're like, no, I think I know what's best for you. There's the head heart thing just kind of doesn't line up sometimes. So I always tell people, yeah, if you see benefits from other people, sure, we're all human on some level. There is some shared benefit. And at the same time, yeah, tailor that because you are not your mom. There are some similarities, obviously, but I mean, what, your circumstances are different than hers? [00:20:10] Speaker A: Absolutely. Thank you so much for that. And I think it's really important that we listen to that folks at home, you know, just because someone else has a result doesn't mean that that's going to work for our body. We all have different allergies. We all have different food tolerances. We all have different laboratory results. So make sure you look at this and approach your practitioners and find out what's necessary. You know, and even with supplementation, one of the things that I always think about, you know, I do take supplements, but I check my blood work regularly, and I have a practitioner who helps me to say, okay, great, well, we're in range here. Here's where we need to do. And so it's never a I'm going to take a supplement. I'm always going to take a supplement every day for the rest of my life. It's what do I need? Because I'm not getting it in my diet because I'm traveling or whatever. And then we are always tweaking that because I want to be a peak performing human being. So just because you're reading stuff on the web or you're seeing stuff or hearing stuff doesn't mean that it's necessarily going to work for you. That's why we always advocate for checking with your practitioners so that you know what's right for you. And you know what? I really like that you said we're all individual. Our bodies are our lab. Like, we're a unique lab. And it's really good to test one thing at a time instead of test a lot of things, because if we do that, we don't know what caused a reaction if we have one. So thank you for that, Jerry. If people would like to learn more about what you're doing here in Houston, what yout pharmacy. How can they reach out to you? [00:21:25] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. The for on the pharmacy side, our pharmacy is called Southend Pharmacy. The website is southendpharmacystore.com and we even have a YouTube channel where we provide educational webinars on the newest trends in weight loss, especially with the FDA regulations coming out, because a lot of people are scared in the next couple weeks that some of these drugs might not be as available or accessible as they used to be. And so, yeah, southend pharmacystore.com not southendpharmacy.com, there's a. There's another sim named Pharmacy in South Carolina, and we get mixed up all the time. So we had to choose a different domain name, but yes, Southend Pharmacy, store.com and check us out on YouTube. Happy to make sure that you are up to speed on the latest health and weight loss trends. [00:22:08] Speaker A: Absolutely. Thank you so much for that. Stick around. We'll be right back after these messages. Welcome back to Vital Signs. I'm Jen Goday here with Jerry Fu, pharmacist and coach in leadership fashion. And we have been talking a whole lot about the pharmacy side of things. But I want to shift gears because one of the hot button topics that is happening, it's happening in healthcare professionals, it's happening in corporate, it's happening in businesses, it's happening in all of our lives, is burnout. And burnout and stress can have negative impacts on our health and definitely on our peak human performance. So I wanted to kind of talk about that with you, Jerry, because burnout's a growing concern in healthcare and leadership and business. What are the biggest contributors to burnout? [00:23:21] Speaker B: Yeah, I think with burnout, part of this is saying yes to too many things. And part of that, though, comes from a noble sense of service. And because in health care, we all want to be healthcare heroes. We all want to know that we saved the life, we stopped the heart attack, we managed to get a pregnant woman through a difficult labor. And you realize very quickly after it's too late, ironically, is that you can't solve every problem because you are one person and you recognize the limits of one person, that surgeons shouldn't operate on more than one person at a time, or at least I hope they don't. And then on top of that, then you have a system that games, that commoditizes service, even whether it's a health product or health service. And they say, well, you have to see more patients in order to get more reimbursements. And then, oh, if you don't, I'll jump through all our hoops. We're not going to reimburse you. And now doctors have to scramble or pharmacists have to work double time just to make up for any revenue that's clawed back through the form of healthcare reimbursements. It's not a surprise that burnout happens because we have to keep saying yes to more things in order to get paid the salaries that we want to get paid. [00:24:34] Speaker A: Yeah. And so as we think about burnout, as we think about this and it happens in our business, our lives Too. I'm a grandmother now, but as a mom and a healthcare provider, I was providing at home, I was providing at work, and I was providing for everybody, but not providing for myself, which was also a big challenge. You know, you kind of put yourself on the back burner when you're a healthcare provider. You put yourself in the back burner when you're caring for other people. And so it just. It just burgeons up. And then we go to the job and there's a conflict. [00:25:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:05] Speaker A: And we're burned out, and we're. We've got nothing left in the tank. We're basically trying to pour from an empty cup because we've given everything that we've had all week long, and this conflict arises, and that ends up in one of a couple ways. We blow up, we have an issue, we stuff it down, it becomes even worse for us. There's a variety of different scenarios. So you've done leadership coaching and you're writing a book about this, too. What are some of the things with regards to this that we can start to take action on or that we can start to do to reduce our burnout and be more present and prepared when conflict arises? [00:25:46] Speaker B: Yeah, part of this is having a better warning system in place, I think, because any good system will tell you when your fuel is low. Any good system will tell you when your battery's low. Right. Because you don't want to be blindsided when all of a sudden you have nothing left to give. And so as much as we hate using the arm, it's overused the whole. Put on your mask before you put anyone else's on. I like to use the cell phone. The cell phone can't function unless the battery is charged. And so as noble as we used to believe that it was to say, okay, let me just give, and I'd rather give. And there are times when push comes to shove and you're going to have to fall on that grenade, but you extrapolate that, and you fall on enough grenades and there's not much left of a person. [00:26:29] Speaker A: Right. [00:26:30] Speaker B: And so in this case, part of this is saying, okay, you know, do I gauge how many extra shifts I've agreed to work in a month? Do I gauge, you know, how many hours I've worked in a week and say, okay, I've hit 40. I'm just going to have to find a stopping point and stop. Because not only is it a warning system, it is also a boundary system. And being able to say, I have to say no when I hit 40 hours a week. Right. Or something to that effect when you have like, I don't want it like have a life that's just self directed by algorithms. And then I don't even have to think about whether or not the algorithm is still relevant or so. But the idea, right, is first is let me make sure I have my, I'm looking at all my gauges for my life and then when something starts to bleep, I don't, I don't ignore it. I don't stuff it down and say, okay, no, this one I can't afford to ignore because I know this means I'm going to either snap or I'm going to make a mistake or I'm going to do something that some kind of fatal error. And so in that regard, yeah, I need to shut down, I need to recover. And until I've given myself this recovery protocol and I feel like I'm fully recharged, I should not resume work. [00:27:37] Speaker A: Okay, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna throw the curve ball at you because let's say I am a single mom who is working as an RN. I do 12 hour shifts, I can't be off when I get home and maybe I'm picking up other shifts to make ends meet. Meet. How the heck do I set those parameters for myself? Because the reality is I saw a statistic and it's, it's alarming how many people are working multiple jobs just to make ends meet these days. And so, and you're, you're, you're trying to care for this child or children and all these other things. So, so it sounds great, yes, in principle, but in practice, how do we start to like, what are the body signals? What are the like emotional things that we might feel like? What are some of those signs that we have to take that break and then how do we address that when we have all of these other responsibilities? [00:28:26] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I'll borrow analogy from a coach friend who in her book talks about the knowing the balance between and the context of, hey, I can work out, I can become stronger, but if I'm just inhaling toxic air the whole time, it doesn't matter how. So thank you, Ijeoma, for that one. And to your point, let's unpack this example of a single mom with money is tight and her time is limited and you have to continually make hard choices all the time. Part of this is to continue to ask yourself, what kind of support system do I need to design for myself? Where are there possible resources to share either with other single moms. Whether it's a word of encouragement or a shared babysitter or something like that, where, yeah, normally in normal cultural circumstances, maybe like, people would say, oh, you're crazy for considering that. But, you know, crazy times come deal and need creative measures. Right? And so, yeah, whether it is lunch bunch, right. I love lunch bunch. Saying, hey, let's all each person cook one big meal and then we all share in a week. And that saves you time, right? Or it's like, hey, let's put a support network together. And so we'll have a week WhatsApp group for verbal encouragement on that level. Or we have shared resources, say, hey, here are some charitable organizations that will help watch our kids to make sure that they don't get into trouble when we have to be away from them. Part of this is recognizing, number one, you don't have to do this alone. Number one, we do want you to recognize your creativity, but you don't have to do this alone. So I'd say those are the first two simple things to start iterating ideas off of. [00:30:02] Speaker A: That's fantastic. And I love that you brought up shared resources because it's a creative solution and something that some people, when we're in it, we can't see. We see either. Or either I do this or I do that even when we're running on fumes, when really it's a yes and it's what else is out there? What are the other options that are out there? And so I want to just highlight something that Jerry said. He said, you don't have to do this alone. If you are under a lot of stress, if you're feeling burned out, if you are feeling like you have too much on your plate, find something. Find a support network, whether it's your peers, people who are in the same scenario as you, whether it's your family, whether it's friends. And I know that we live in Houston and Houston's a transient city. So a lot of times people move in and they have no support structure, reach out to other human beings because we were not meant to exist in a silo and in isolation. So I really like that you brought that up. And so find that support network and get creative with your solutions. There are a lot of things that Jerry mentioned that were really fantastic. We are going to have to take a brief break, but we will be right back after these messages. Foreign welcome back to Vital Signs. I'm here with Jerry Fu. We have talked about all kinds of topics today. So if you're just tuning in, you're going to want to go to NowMedia TV, click on shows and catch the full, full episode. Because we've gone into detail about weight loss, drugs. We talked about supplementation and detox. We've talked about what's happening in the pharmaceutical industry and how can we take care of our greatest asset, our health. Before the break, we were talking a little bit about burnout and some of the things that we can do when we feel like we just have too much on our plate. And now we're going to dive into the topic that I've been waiting to dive into with Jerry, because this is something he is a very, very well versed in, and that's conflict resolution. Most human beings avoid conflict. Most people. So if you're thinking, oh, I feel seen, yes, most people avoid conflict because it's uncomfortable. We don't like to feel uncomfortable. So, Geri, talk to me a little bit about the biggest misconceptions about conflict resolution. [00:32:35] Speaker B: Yeah, A big challenge for a lot of people is the identifying and clarifying the story that they tell themselves when conflict arises. Because a lot of times, I know in my own life when I still struggle with this, guys, it's easy to fall back into bad habits. But a lot of times conflict when people tell themselves, oh, I'm a bad person because this person is upset with me or I did something wrong and therefore I have to beat myself up or somehow I'm lesser than because some conflict is arises, and that's not necessarily accurate because you might have not even foreseen what kind of conflict came about when sometimes you have to clean up other people's messes. And so we, in terms of conflict, part of this is recognizing instead shifting people to realize, hey, what is the opportunity to learn and how can I help solve this problem? And if that involves me adjusting some habits or changing something on my part to reduce the next recurring conflict, then, yeah, let me do that. And so part of this is recognizing, okay, other things around that conflict. Also to say, okay, well, Jerry, I don't have courage. And they say, well, can you use curiosity instead? And so when you realize also conflict is about listening and making people feel heard and appreciated and respected. Even if you disagree with them, the more likely you're able to diffuse the situation actually lead to productive action. And don't get me wrong, sometimes it feels exhausting. You say, oh, not this conversation again. But again, conflict. One of my favorite sayings that came up in the previous conversation around this was that conflict is a truth revealer it's very hard to be angry. It's like angry and dishonest at the same time. Unless someone's just like that compulsive, a liar, where they know how to create a ruse and just make you get you off balance. But the idea is that conflict shows that, hey, you know what? At some point, some expectations were broken, and the fact that they were honest enough to bring this to your attention means that they care. And if that means that they care, then that means there's something to build on in terms of at least trying to reach some healthier spot in that relationship. [00:34:43] Speaker A: You know, I really want to highlight what you said because it is so true. And it goes back to our previous conversation about boundaries, too. You know, it's about we. Societally, we want to be people pleasers. And so when we're not pleasing people or people are unhappy, then we make it about us. And really, folks, it's not about us. You know, we are all. There's two. There's two sides to every story. Well, really, there's three sides. There's your side, my side, and then the actual thing that happened, the objective third observer. But the reality is, when we're people pleasers, we have a hard time understanding that it's not so solely our responsibility to do all the things. And what we're doing when we do that is we're not. We're disallowing the other perspective. And so you said two ears. Listen, we have two ears and one mouth for a reason. And conflict resolution is about listening. And so that's the same thing with boundaries. Right. If you were to ask me to dinner tonight, I would say, you know what, Jerry, I really appreciate that you want to go to dinner. I wish that I could go with you. Unfortunately, I already have plans. Like, I'm listening. I'm validating your request, and I'm setting the boundary. And the same happens in conflict resolution. Give us a practical strategy that we could use to approach these difficult conversations. Maybe there's an unresolved conflict in let's. Let's use a life conflict. Like, there's a lot of conflict. There's a lot of challenges that happen, for example, in marriage or, like, that's a great one. You know, business partnership is another one. Right? [00:36:07] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:36:08] Speaker A: But you have an ongoing thing that you haven't brought up, and it's escalating in your own mind. How do we start that conversation? [00:36:15] Speaker B: Yeah. Let me give you a very personal and exhausting example from my own journey and getting better at conflict. Is that at one point I had to evict a roommate that had defaulted on his lease. And that was extremely. It was extremely intense. And it was exhausting because he and I both knew the exact day where he did not pay, and therefore it was up to him to leave. And that was hard because he would just sit in his room and just wait for me to actually enforce the legal consequences of defaulting on this lease. And so me trying to go to his room and knock on his door, and I'm just sitting there with this knot in my chest, just wondering, what's he going to say and what's he going to do? And of course, all he did was just give me promises that had no real merit. And then after a while, I could feel this resentment building up to say, I want to trust this guy. I want to believe he's going to come through for me. And yet at the same time, his actions and evidence were contrary to the hope that I had in him. And so at some point, people had to affirm me and challenge me and say, hey, Jerry, you are the landlord. You have legal precedent. He signed the lease. He knows what consequences are befallen to him. And until, until you actually follow through with the necessary and difficult, are you willing to live with the consequences if you don't? And that was a big wake up call for me because I realized I couldn't even look forward to coming home, Jen, knowing that he was squatting property. And so I tried to again, just, I typed out a letter because you just try to inch your way forward to say, okay, well, I don't want to knock on his door. I'm just going to put this to make sure we can't ignore it. And I need to have this. And then, of course, he's begging some more. And then you try to, you know, kick the can down the road. And it's just. And so the definitive action is, okay, what's, what's a successful conversation? And I said, okay, well, successful conversation is he needs to go and he's giving me a deadline. Okay, well, now that I have an idea of, you know, the target. Okay, what. How can I drum up 10 seconds of courage? The second step? How can I drum up 10 seconds courage to put this on wall? I'm to knock on his door. Okay, let me tip out the letter. I'm going to tape it, taping it. Like you never think you never had so much trouble taping a letter to a door. And so I taped the letter to the door. Okay, next step, script by critical phrases where I'm saying, okay, well, if this conversation starts to go in directions that I hope that it wouldn't, how am I ready to counter his counter? And he would say things like, oh, you know, just give me another week. And I said, well, I gave you a week and you still haven't had anything. Or if he says, well, no, I'm still trying. And I say, well, okay, tell me. Make him get specific about how many leads have you actually found in terms of rental assistance? And if he has nothing to show, then I can say, well, no, you clearly aren't taking this seriously. The fourth step. Some people may shift these out of in a different order, shuffle them however they need to. But the fourth is to rehearse this. Because if I don't take the time to iron out my words previously, I'm going to trip over them in the moment. So. So let me make sure I get my phrasing down. And then step five is to follow through. And this is where it's different for a lot of people in health care or any other situation where, you know, they realize, oh, well, you know, if I say, hey, you need to leave. And he says, make me. And I, you know, am I done? I'm like, no. Like, I am not done. Failure doesn't mean you're done. Failure means you're not done. Because until he left the property, when I told him, hey, it doesn't matter how many more deadlines they give you, if you actually get rental assistance, you need to use it to cover rent at your next place, because you're done here. And only then did I see him start to pack up his things. Because when he realized, oh, I can't just promise Jerry that I'm eventually going to get the money, he realized that was checkmate for him. And then he finally started to move out. [00:39:54] Speaker A: So I just want to kind of recap very briefly, like, it's about having a plan. Like, Jerry had a plan. He scripted out what he was going to do. He figured out what he wanted. He broke it down into the six steps. And then you drum up the courage and you just move through the plan. So just like with everything else, if we. If we don't want to bring up a conversation, folks, I've had these hard conversations. I have literally written it down and given it to the person. And then I had a copy so that when it came to me, I still had my bullet points so that I didn't forget anything. Because it's important that you feel heard and validated. So it's important that we resolve conflict. Unresolved conflict results in other stress and health issues. Jerry, how can people reach out to you if they'd like to learn more? [00:40:34] Speaker B: Yeah. So if you like, if any of those five steps resonated with you, I actually give away that guide for free on my website. So my personal coaching website is adaptingleaders.com guide. And again, adaptingleaders.com guide. And you can get that guide for free. Yep, there it is on the screen. Wonderful. Yep. If you want to gain clarity and confidence in closure, if you want to become a more visible, valuable and vocal leader. Yeah. Feel free to get a complimentary 30 minute consultation. You can book right on that website. [00:41:05] Speaker A: Fantastic. And Jeri, for the people who are at home and they've listened to this, they've been through this entire journey with us. We've talked about a whole lot. We've talked about our health habits. We've talked about, you know, what's happening with pharmaceuticals and not readjusting our dosages and things without checking with our practitioners. We've talked about boundaries and burnout. What is one action step that everybody at home can take today that will move them positively forward? [00:41:30] Speaker B: Yeah, I think what I would do, the simplest thing is I would just take out your phone, turn on your voice recorder and then I would just say, what am I feeling now? You know, what I want out of life and what is one thing I want to do now and who is one person that can help me do that thing. And I'd be curious to see if people want to share that, you know, and see what, what kind of thoughts come up. I'd love to, I'd love to hear, see what happens next. [00:42:00] Speaker A: Fantastic. I love it. A little bit of self exploration for you today. We have talked about a lot of things today. We are always focused on your greatest asset, your health. And that's your holistic health and well being. Such you can be a peak performing human being and really escalate and elevate where you are. Because we only have one body. We only have one body. It is our greatest asset and we want to take care of it. I'm going to give you an action step today and that's think about all of the lifestyle choices that you make. And if you are not in that health that you want, the physical health, the mental, social, emotional health that you want to be, think about one thing that you are willing to start doing and pick up that book, Atomic Habits. Jerry mentioned it earlier. It's an excellent resource and make that the first habit that you implement, it's a great way to start. And what happens is when we do that one thing every day, like for me lately it was going to bed a little bit earlier because I wasn't getting the sleep that I need. And so it's hard because I want to do other things or I get caught up. But that became my habit. And then once that's just easy, then you know you're ready for the next one. And I want you to take this that action today because it's the one step that you take today that's going to add up to your residual success over time. Let's take advantage of compounding interest of our health and really maximize our greatest asset. Unfortunately, all good things come to an end, including this show. But the good news is we'll be here same time, same station next week. Until then, have an amazing rest of your day. [00:43:31] Speaker B: This has been a NOW Media Networks feature presentation. All rights reserved.